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Who is winning the race - Java or .NET? And why?
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March 10, 2010
9:11 PM
Ramesh Kumar
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Hi! Smile

Java & .NET both have (or is it had?) the same objective – to work with all computing devices & OS. When they started running this marathon the track got muddied somewhat so their fortunes waxed & waned from time to time. Who do you think will win this race? Java or .NET?

I am providing you a “tech balance sheet” of the two. I tried attaching the jpg file from my hard disk but the horse shoe icon on my WYSIWYG does not let me. So I’ll summarize the points. The assets are in green & the liabilities in red:-

Java

  1. Java is portable across more OS – Windows, Linux, Mackintosh, Kylie (China is trying to develop its own OS! They call it Kylie! It’s different from Windows)
  2. Java works on wide array of computing devices – laptop, desktop, palmtop, mobile phone, washing machine, refrigerators etc etc etc
  3. Java focuses only on one programming language aka Java
  4. The 28 years old Java company (Sun Microsystems) was bought over by Oracle on Jan 27 2010. Why did Oracle do that btw? Confused Is Oracle a company which fosters growth or harvests profits? Will it blossom Java or drain it out. You tell me.
  5. Java installed base is – 

Java powers more than 4.5 billion devices including:

  • 850+ million PCs
  • 2.1 billion mobile phones and other handheld devices (source: Ovum)
  • 3.5 billion smart cards
  • Set-top boxes, printers, Web cams, games, car navigation systems,
    lottery terminals, medical devices, parking payment stations, and more
    .

.NET

  1. Portable across Windows (at least) for “some” part
  2. Portable across some computing devices – desktop, laptop & some mobile phones only
  3. Focuses on many programming languages. Some say 20 while I say 64 because some languages e.g. C & C++ & others as well have *More than 1 avatar* Veracity can be proven.
  4. Despite multitude of source code languages the main source code languages are C & C++ because they are closer than all others to Assembly Language as on date btw. So having so many languages has not helped .NET much.
  5. Microsoft & .NET are still owned only by Microsoft
  6. Very few apps require .NET. I estimate not more than 3% of all apps at the most
  7. Microsoft has hugely diluted its original vision for .NET
  8. Microsoft does not tell you .NET installed base. Why? Is it because .NET installed base is lousily small? You tell me

So what is your take? Who will win – Java or .NET? Feel free to correct the tech balance sheet if you find it incorrect or if you disagree with it.

Ramesh Smile 

 

 

March 10, 2010
10:52 PM
Locutus
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RE:  .NET #8:  As of 2014 all supported Windows computers will have it.

Oh, the site that was :(
March 11, 2010
12:27 AM
Ramesh Kumar
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Locutus said:

RE:  .NET #8:  As of 2014 all supported Windows computers will have it.


Smile

Not just that my friend Locutus!  Smile I understand that:-

  1. All new shipments of Vista & Win7 come pre-installed with .NET Surprised
  2. The logical inference is that Vista is the last OS wherein part of the userbase has .NET & part of userbase does not have .NET. Could you confirm if I am right about this?

Since Win7 & Vista also allow “ratcheting down compatibility” to Xp I infer ratcheting down means choosing to use non-.NET runtime. Am I right?

Does it mean that Win7 offers a choice of 2 runtimes – .NET & non-.NET aka if one wishes one can remove .NET from Win7 & choose to have only non-.NET runtime? Kindly let me know.

Ramesh Smile

 

March 11, 2010
12:39 AM
Ramesh Kumar
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Ramesh Kumar said:

Smile

Not just that my friend Locutus!  Smile I understand that:-

  1. All new shipments of Vista & Win7 come pre-installed with .NET Surprised
  2. The logical inference is that Vista is the last OS wherein part of the userbase has .NET & part of userbase does not have .NET. Could you confirm if I am right about this?

Since Win7 & Vista also allow “ratcheting down compatibility” to Xp I infer ratcheting down means choosing to use non-.NET runtime. Am I right?

Does it mean that Win7 offers a choice of 2 runtimes – .NET & non-.NET aka if one wishes one can remove .NET from Win7 & choose to have only non-.NET runtime? Kindly let me know.

Ramesh Smile

 


Why did I say this? Smile Wink

If Win7 & Vista allow what I am saying then Vista users & Win7 users can have their cake & eat it too aka they can enjoy the faster speed, better gui etc of the later OS and at the same time enjoy the benefit of enjoying more apps which Xp offers (especially Xp 32 bit)

Ramesh Smile

March 11, 2010
2:00 AM
sean
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I believe that microsoft is scaling down it’s links to legacy programs. however,  they can never fully turn their backs on it. hell, people still use windows 95 one and a half decades later.

 

But while they can’t turn their back on it doesn’t mean they can’t try to ignore it. the current Windows 7 release comes with the option to download a virtual machine of XP, which I would assume runs faster than the real thing. and, I think, has .net functionality.

 

I don’t see microsoft getting rid of their revered .net framework. I think that they may scale it down, or consolidate some of the languages but it will be there.

 

As for Java, I see it growing larger. It is a very useful thing, and compatable over so many OS’s, that it will become a language of choice, or at least the common choice, as HTML and PHP are for web pages.

March 11, 2010
2:45 AM
Ramesh Kumar
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sean said:

I believe that microsoft is scaling down it’s links to legacy programs. however,  they can never fully turn their backs on it. hell, people still use windows 95 one and a half decades later.

 

But while they can’t turn their back on it doesn’t mean they can’t try to ignore it. the current Windows 7 release comes with the option to download a virtual machine of XP, which I would assume runs faster than the real thing. and, I think, has .net functionality.

 

I don’t see microsoft getting rid of their revered .net framework. I think that they may scale it down, or consolidate some of the languages but it will be there.

 

As for Java, I see it growing larger. It is a very useful thing, and compatable over so many OS’s, that it will become a language of choice, or at least the common choice, as HTML and PHP are for web pages.


 

Hi Sean!Smile

So what emerges from your reply is:-

  1. Even if a Win7 user ratchets all the way down to Xp it is only in –
    1. Virtual form & not physical form via a new partition. Surprised
    2. It still uses .NET runtime environment aka there is no “non-.Net runtime environment” being offered as a choice. Or is there? Sean if there is no choice of runtime being offered then how is Microsoft keeping in touch with the legacy option you refer to? Confused
    3. How does ratcheting down to Xp help the user run more apps as compared to if he/she did not ratchet down? I ask this only because if runtime only emains .NET how does it help matters? Confused
  2. I share your thought on the number of .NET languages. Yes it is logically correct to infer that no. of generic languages aka source code languages will come down. In a different thread a doyen dottechie – Samuel had said that most of .NET is still written in C or C++ simply because it most closely resembles the Assembly Language. Check in main blog search filter……it is one of 3 posts in programming
  3. Like you I intuit Java becoming bigger. Why? The number of “non-computer computing devices” (phones, refrigerators, household appliances etc) vastly exceeds “computer computing devices” (laptops, desktops, palmtops). Already Java has a larger usage across absolute number of computing devices because of this! Surprised
  4. Furthermore .NET came up much after mobile phones had already made substantial investment in proprietory software e.g. Motorola phones have their own software, Nokia while slightly more open minded uses non-Windows platforms. Windows mkt share in phones is still a lousy single digit market share percentage Surprised
  5. Java has one more advantage. It is buddy buddy with Linux OS as well. So in China where Linux is a huge OS, (I am not sure; I think Linux there is bigger than Windows. It is bigger than Windows at least in mobile phones for sure; of the latter I am certain) Java has the advantage Surprised
  6. Since phones & refrigerators grow at a numerically faster rate than computers I feel Java has the overall advantage Surprised
  7. The Java-Linux partnership also gives Java an advantage in the office segment because Linux has a 90% mkt share in the office segment. Microsoft 90% mkt share is mainly in the home segment. At the office it is a lousy 1%. Linux is the exact opposite. Funny huh? Smile

But then Microsoft is no fool. In a rare combo of humility & smartness Microsoft has partnered its .NET initiative not with its own Windows Server OS but with Novelle Server OS! Wink

No wonder Microsoft gave the world its wealthiest human being at one time. Wink

All things considered I’d say the odds favour Java. There is only one fly in the ointment – Java has been bought over by Oracle! Would this help or screw Java……..I don’t know. Handled right it could help Java since Oracle is a great relational database software. Handled wrong it can screw the hell out of Java simply because Oracle is >>>>>>>>>>>>>costlier than SQL Surprised

If the new Java (aka Oracle) owner makes the mistake of continuing with premium pricing like he does for Oracle it would hurt Java. In which case Microsoft would once again go laughing all the way to the bank. Wink

A lot depends upon the pricing strategy Java would adopt, under its new owners

Let us see what happens! Confused

Ramesh

 

March 11, 2010
1:56 PM
Pwnana
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I don’t know who could be the “winner” as they compete in several arenas.  In terms of hardware, Java is, has, and probably always will be victorious.  That was what Java was designed for, and as you said it supports far more devices than .NET.  In terms of Windows, its pretty close.  Not many average user apps run on Java, but then again not many run on .NET either.  On any other OS Java wins, since of course .NET is Windows only.  In terms of internet, Java is the clear victor, as a large majority of Web 2.0 runs on Java.  So if you can count the winner on a point system, then with a 2 for 3:

 

 

public class JavaIsTheWinner {
public static void main(String[] args) {
boolean javaWins = true;
if (javaWins == true)
System.out.println(“Java is the victor!“);
else
{
System.out.println(“Impossible, Java is always the winner.“);
System.exit(0);
}
}
}
Laugh
Sun has always been an awesome company.  VirtualBox, MySQL, Open Office, all for free.  I sure hope Oracle keeps this up…

 

You got Pwnd
March 11, 2010
8:35 PM
Ramesh Kumar
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Pwnana said:

 

I don’t know who could be the “winner” as they compete in several arenas.  In terms of hardware, Java is, has, and probably always will be victorious.  That was what Java was designed for, and as you said it supports far more devices than .NET.  In terms of Windows, its pretty close.  Not many average user apps run on Java, but then again not many run on .NET either.  On any other OS Java wins, since of course .NET is Windows only.  In terms of internet, Java is the clear victor, as a large majority of Web 2.0 runs on Java.  So if you can count the winner on a point system, then with a 2 for 3:

 

 

public class JavaIsTheWinner {
public static void main(String[] args) {
boolean javaWins = true;
if (javaWins == true)
System.out.println(“Java is the victor!“);
else
{
System.out.println(“Impossible, Java is always the winner.“);
System.exit(0);
}
}
}
Laugh
Sun has always been an awesome company.  VirtualBox, MySQL, Open Office, all for free.  I sure hope Oracle keeps this up…

 


 

Awesome post Pwnana, Awesome! Smile

Another start to a great new day!

Ramesh Smile

March 11, 2010
10:26 PM
Ramesh Kumar
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Does anybody know:-

  1. how many apps run on java?
  2. how many apps run on .NET?
  3. which one runs more apps………java or .NET?
  4. Out of total Microsoft userbase:-
    1. what % has java installed?
    2. what % has .NET installed?
    3. what % has both java & .NET installed?

Ramesh Smile

March 11, 2010
11:36 PM
Locutus
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@Ramesh:  Where are you getting your Linux is for offices stats from?  Those seem like the opposite from what I’ve seen.

Oh, the site that was :(
March 12, 2010
9:44 PM
Ramesh Kumar
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Wonderful question!Smile

I’ll get back to you very shortly.

Btw I had sent you an important PM. Friend, have you seen it?

RameshSmile

March 13, 2010
12:27 PM
Pwnana
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Ramesh Kumar said:

Does anybody know:-

  1. how many apps run on java?
  2. how many apps run on .NET?
  3. which one runs more apps………java or .NET?
  4. Out of total Microsoft userbase:-
    1. what % has java installed?
    2. what % has .NET installed?
    3. what % has both java & .NET installed?

Ramesh Smile


I don’t know how you could find that out.  All I know is that both are pretty rare.  On my computer, I think I have one app that runs on Java (not counting Eclipse), and two that run on .NET.  I think there may be a few Windows utilities that run on .NET.  So from this very small bit of data, .NET seems to have more apps.

I might be able to answer the last one, though.  For Windows 7, 100% of users have .NET, because its built in.  I would guess maybe 90% or higher also have Java.  .NET gets rarer on older versions of Windows, while Java stays the same.  So all I can say is that definitely more Windows users have Java than have .NET.

You got Pwnd
March 13, 2010
4:42 PM
karen
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Although, it doesn’t technically count as being “on your computer”, I think far more websites probably run on java as their server software than rely on .net.  And you don’t have to have java installed on your computer to use those websites because the java software only operates on the server side.

March 13, 2010
5:18 PM
Pwnana
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You do still need Java installed on your computer to view Java based content.

You got Pwnd
March 14, 2010
1:36 AM
Ramesh Kumar
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Locutus said:

@Ramesh:  Where are you getting your Linux is for offices stats from?  Those seem like the opposite from what I’ve seen.


 

Steve Ballmer estimated that Linux runs on 60% of web servers vs. 40% for Windows, besides Novell had bought Suse Linux from Linux, besides there is a Linux Server OS called Debian which boots up in 15 minutes! Since Novell is on the block & Linux languishes for advtg money some good html links have gone missing.
Ramesh Smile

March 14, 2010
9:40 AM
karen
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Pwnana said:

You do still need Java installed on your computer to view Java based content.


 

No you don’t.  If it’s a java applet, sure you do need to have it installed.

But if you are on a website and sending http/html requests to the server and the server is processing it and returning html to the client browser, it doesn’t matter what language the server performs in.  And lots of them use Java.  You don’t need java installed in this case.

March 14, 2010
12:40 PM
Pwnana
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Thats why I said Java based content.  I’m talking about people who have Java installed to view web apps and other content that uses Javascript and applets.  But Java running on servers definitely adds to Java’s overall score.

You got Pwnd
March 14, 2010
5:32 PM
karen
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Pwnana said:

Thats why I said Java based content.  I’m talking about people who have Java installed to view web apps and other content that uses Javascript and applets.  But Java running on servers definitely adds to Java’s overall score.


 

Got it.  And agreed, if you just mean java-based content as opposed to overall software that powers the web.

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