All your tweets are belong to us – or rather, the USA government
January 9, 2011 74
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Most everyone has heard about the Wikileaks, erm, leak drama regarding United States diplomatic cables. Since the leak, the US government has started an investigation to try to bring Wikileaks “to justice”. I put “to justice” in quotes not because I am taking the side of Wikileaks (I am neither pro or anti Wikileaks), but rather because not everyone agrees on this matter. Anyway, apparently as part of this investigation, the US Attorney’s office has convinced a District Court judge data held by Twitter is “relevant and material to [the] ongoing criminal investigation”; Twitter has been subpoenaed to hand over data related to various different Twitter accounts but the two big names in the list are Julian Assange, the founder/CEO/whatever of Wikileaks, and Birgitta Jonsdottir, an Icelandic MP.
Originally the subpoena came with a gag order, but Twitter fought back and the gag order was lifted; Twitter is now legally allowed to let the public – and the respective account holders – know about the US Attorney’s Office’s demand to hand over data.
According to the BBC, the data demanded from Twitter by the US Attorney’s office includes “mailing addresses and billing information, connection records and session times, IP addresses used to access Twitter, email accounts, as well as the ‘means and source of payment’”.
While I am not pro/anti Wikileaks, USA government, or Iranian government, the following response by Julian Assange (to this Twitter subpoena) really struck home with me:
If the Iranian government was to attempt to coercively obtain this information from journalists and activists of foreign nations, human rights groups around the world would speak out.
As I said, I am not pro/anti any of the parties involved; however, I can’t help but agree with Assange. There definitely are double-standards when it comes to politics, especially on a global scale.
Furthermore, personally speaking, while I understand why the US Attorney’s Office is looking into all things Assange (they really want to take this guy down, badly), I feel the investigation into an foreign dignitary (i.e. Birgitta Jonsdottir) may turn out to be a big mistake. Of course, Iceland may just brush off the investigation and not pursue any diplomatic repercussions, but they may also react strongly to one of their MPs being investigated by the USA government. I am sure the United States government would react if an American congressperson was being invested abroad.
It will be interesting to see how this all plays out. Feel free to discuss in the comments below (consider this an open politics discussion thread), but keep it civil.
[via BBC News]
@Uncle Sam:
It’s baffling to me how ANYONE could criticize Julian…He’s a GENUINE HERO!!
If anyone REALLY wants to see what’s ACTUALLY going on I highly recommend
the Keith Olbermann Show.
The man is a living gawd.
http://wikileaks-ro.blogspot.com/2010/12/documente.html
Wikileaks is everywhere where peoples are afraid to say something or where politicians can’t make something realy good for the peoples from their country.Wikileaks is the voice of freedom for simple peoples.Translate this site with Google to see an example.I’m not the creator of Wikealeaks from Romania,only i found that we have this.
@clockmendergb:
“As an aside…” Ever since 9/11 many western (and other) countries have installed anti-terrorist legislations that make it so much easier to invade a person’s privacy and even emprison one without proper detailed charge(s) for an extended number of days or months to give governments the “time needed for investigation”.
We have seen numerous US- and non-US citizens/persons been picked up in the USA or abroad (without any consent from the foreign governments concerned), deported and emprisonned without charge for very long periods, “interrogated” and finally released without trial, without any explanation or excuse (or some endemnification). This was mostly the work of US military and secret services.
Second in row regarding such internationally illigal actions may be the UK, as always very obliging towards the US.
Protests by human rights organizations and others have been to no avail and no one has had the guts to bring the US and it’s accomplices to trial.
Note that this sort of repressive actions are not new in US history (nor in the history of other countries for that matter).
It is obvious that the Universal Declaration of Human Rights is in fact just a piece of paper and little more than that. It is also obvious that modern ICT, crosslinked databases, observation technology and data analysis techniques are powerfull weapons to monitor, closely observe and guide the average citizen, eventually leading to subtlle or brutal repression whenever the powerfull deem it convenient to fully excercise their power. They make it a prority to inspire fear and paranoia so that the populace will gladly accept repressive and privacy invading legislation worldwide.
Finally, with the unimaginably large amount of available information comes a comparable amount of disinformation. It takes more than just common sense nowadays to distinguish between thruth and lies, between genuine information and downright mass manipulation – as has been the case with the Bush administration and starting the last war in Iraq. The shameless manipulations, the scale of it all and the hypocracy demonstrated by governments and policymakers (also outside the US, e.g. the UK, the Netherlands,…) is unprecedented in history.
The WikiLeaks “scandal” and the hunting down of Assange (and his coworkers whenever they will be located) may serve as another testcase about how far “the powers that be” may go and how meek the “common man” really is.
To Uncle Sam (#47) “The mentally ill Julian Assange should be classified as an enemy combatant and hunted down.” and some other people: let’s hope that the wrath of the real Uncle Sam never comes down on you. He has a strange habit of coming down hard on innocent and even very patriotic individuals (or groups) from time to time. Perhaps you have forgotten the paranoid and hysteric hunt for communists after the Second World War (McCarthyism – remember e.g. Oppenheimer) inspired by a true madman (J. Edgar Hoover, head of FBI), or the deportation to concentration camps of totally innocent American-Japanese citizens after Pearl Harbour.
History has lots of lessons that we seem to readily forget. One is : beware of the powers that be. Another one : power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely.
As for this discussion being somewhat out of place here, I would point out that no technology is a-political. So this discussion is not totally out of place. But it might be indeed preferable (for some) to vent political ideas on libertynewsforum.com and similar sites. I myself think of it as a one time sort of experiment, unconciously initiated by Ashraf. I have no objections to that…
Greetz,
Patrick.
@prema:
The reason it is typed that way is because of this… may wanna google before chastising Ashraf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_your_base_are_belong_to_us
@Patrick:
Bravo, Patrick! Bravo!
Technology and legality (aka politics) overlap all the time within the world wide web. Insightful (inciteful?) admissions such as “the internet was not designed to be a private place” and “the probative value of documents posted on WikiLeaks in a court of law is a question for courts to decide” should not be overlooked. Whether it be dotTech or facebook or Google or Twitter or any other hosting entity, the privilege to post is always accompanied by policy; in other words, for those shouting “big brother!” or “freedom of speech!” or “get offa mah lawn!” – check the terms of service…
Kudos for encouraging such dialog, Ashraf! These comments are much better than the simple “Nice find!” or “lol that reference!” or “Thank you!” posts that so often show up. For what it’s worth, my vote for best response goes to nene – with an honorable mention to all of the incensed blather in it’s entirety, which made me think of this…
Good posts and really nice to see people discuss with maners ^^
“Its not the Wikileaks crisis thats funny – Its peoples reaction to it! Runnin around like headless chickens… Saying “w00t” “w00t”!!!”
The only reason Julian has become the whipping boy is because he has repeated the embarrassing things that governments have said about each other,or exposed the lies they have told their citizens. If governments would respect each other the way most of their citizens respect other nations and if goverments did not lie to their own people Assange would have nothing to talk about.
Assange might end up in a cell with a wood plank bed and no pillow or blanket like the American who gave him the info , but Rupert Murdoch and all the other media moguls who published what he leaked will go on dining with presidents. Julian will be one of the most nominated persons for Australian of the year this year but I’m betting it goes to a doctor or a sports star.
There are some really great posts here to this thread..some really great reading in general..that it’s hard to offer anything that hasn’t already been touched on already better than I could have!
I guess I just wanted to add..hopefully without sounding too much of a nut-job..just how close our world has become to those “dark” worlds we grew up reading about and watching on TV and in the movies! As recent as one generation ago, we honestly thought good still over-came evil..that humanity was essentially good at heart and that politics still worked, no matter how flawed politicians may be in person. Then 9/11 happened and the world suddenly turned on its head.
A shadow has since been cast over the globe..one both Georges ( Lucas and Orwell) could hardly have conceived, even though both came close to it in their work. The world we now live in seems more focused on getting than giving..life has become cheap and poverty is what the future holds for far too many.
I am not trying to be all “doom and gloom” here..just stating the simple facts as they now stand..in a world who’s population is ever-growing, as its resorces continue to dwindle at an alarming rate!
In short, we are where we should be, given the road we took to get here..and it should come as no surprise to anyone. We can’t undo what has been done or what will happen in the near future..but we can try and branch off of the path we are currently on..one that will lead us to a very different future..but to do this, we all need to change and demand others chance, too..including the way our contries are run..and that it not going to be easy.
Until that day comes, we will continue to see things like this happen..watch from the sidelines, as our rights are stolen away from us..one by one! As Aldous Huxley said, “Liberties are not given, they are taken.” Our rights come from God..no matter if you believe in such an entitiy or not..and each person has the same rights in society..or should have, all things being equal.
How did it get to be like this? I guess there is no one clear reason to give in answer to that question, other than to recognize it is more than just one thing that has lead to this point..and each “thing” has lead, urgred or pushed us all closer to where we now find ourselves.
As simple as it may sound, we each need to change the way we act and react in this world if we want to see the kind of changes we all know at heart need to be effected. We each need to learn, as well as teach the children of this world, the difference between what we “need” and what we “want”..and how the two are not always the same and often mutually exclusive.
We need to become more considerate and compassionate in our dealings with others and empathetic to the plight of those less fortunate than ourselves.
We need to understand that sometimes our “right” to act is not the right thing to do..and that not acting can be as powerful as reacting..if not more so!
I could go on, but I’m sure you get the general point of what I’m saying here.
Thanks to everyone for a very interesting thread.
Dan
Hmmm I certainly wish I had wise thoughtful friends like Patrick and Dan to converse with daily.
/because the world is full of people who haven’t a clue or just don’t give a bleep….
which is one of the many reasons why I’m investing in silver mines….
The US Justice Department is investigating a possible crime and therefore subpoenas information from Twitter and possibly other internet sources. They get a court order to allow this. The initial “gag” order was allowed by the court to prevent the elimination of information by those named in the subpoena, once the court was assured by Twitter that the information would remain secured, the gag order was lifted. This is the way the Law works in the USA so what is the problem? If the Justice Department feels that they have enough evidence to bring charges against any of those named in the subpoena they will file charges and then then the courts decide the outcome. Wikileaks is just another possible crime breaking organization (of US law) that is being investigated and may face possible charges in the future in the USA.
Interesting questions arise, such as can a person in another country who hosts a web site in the USA be charged and convicted in the US courts if that web site is used to break the law? Does the World Court need to be involved? I’m just a spectator for these events but it will be interesting to see how this particular situation plays out.
As J.A. is an Australian citizen Aust should have first rights to detain him for what he’s released about his own government, if they can face the embarrassment.
Its funny how there was more freedom of speech under Reagan and Nixon as I don’t recall any journalist ever being in troube for reporting on the ” Iran Contra affair,” or “Watergate,” or the supply of rocket launchers to the Mujahadeen ( later to be known as the Taliban ) to help them to fight Russian tanks and helicopters.
Are these reporters now American hero’s ? freedom of speech sure is different in recent times.
@Twolane:
I am US supporter. however I think Assuange should be left alone and US state dept make sure such leaks don’t happen in future. However about Iran the human rights abuses are all enveloping. You can do wrong even when your doing right. For ex: helping an senior citizen, who is a dissident, to cross a street
An excellent thread, and no reason why it shouldn’t be on dot tech seeing as how the harvest from technology is being discussed.
Nor is dot.tech alone in this regard: many, many UK websites that report and debate computer tech issues were pretty much filled a couple of years ago with the great debate about Phorm and the conduct of British Telecom in undertaking stealth trials of Phorm technology without the consent of BT’s subscribers. For that kind of debate to have been censored because “we’re-only-here-to-talk-about-software” would’ve been witless.
PS: Note to Ashraf:
One of the joys of living in the UK is that its House of Lords is peopled by the great and the good, the ignoble and the bad, and the downright bonkers. In neither the US nor anywhere else for that matter can there surely be anyone more gloriously bonkers than our Lord James, Baron of Blackheath, whose speeches of late, recorded in Hansard, exceed the wildest imaginings of any fiction writer, anywhere.
@MikeR: As a UK Ex-pat who left in the early 80′s I am totally disgusted as to what has happened in the homeland. The number of CCTV cameras alone should be raising concerns for all – George Orwell predicted this and now you will all be arrested for Thoughtcrime (execpt the Cockney’s – I mean Proles).
Before I left Thatcher said the Euro would never be adopted and how right she was.
Oh what has happened to you, my Beloved England ?
@Dan and forum…I’ve been saying this for quite some time, the old saying “people are basically good” is just that, “old”…I don’t believe people are basically good. People were basically “good” in the early 1900′s. The “good” began it’s turn around in the late fifties, and has been getting worse ever since and it will continue. People on this planet need to face this fact. The planet has been spiriling out of control for a long time and it will continue. Greed is at the root of this, and greed is here to stay. Greed and the powerful go hand in hand. Is there a way out? Pray to the Creator, our only hope. Only Divine intervention can stop this mess. And it is a mess. Step outside and look in. The world is at war. Natural disasters have overwhelmingly bombarded this planet one after the other. Violence is everywhere and only getting stronger and more sophisticated. Take a look sometime at Jesse Ventura’s “Conspiracy Theory” as he exposes corruption, especially in the “powers that be”. Here is a project the world can do without…..
“Major aspects of the program are kept secret for alleged reasons of “national security.” Yet there is no doubt that HAARP and electromagnetic weapons capable of being used in warfare do exist. According to the official HAARP website, “HAARP is a scientific endeavor aimed at studying the properties and behavior of the ionosphere, with particular emphasis on being able to understand and use it to enhance communications and surveillance systems for both civilian and defense purposes.” The ionosphere is the delicate upper layer of our atmosphere which ranges from about 30 miles (50 km) to 600 miles (1,000 km) above the surface of the Earth.”
Continue reading on Examiner.com: HAARP: Secret weapon for weather modification, electromagnetic warfare? – National US Intelligence | Examiner.com http://www.examiner.com/us-intelligence-in-national/haarp-secret-weapon-for-weather-modification-electromagnetic-warfare#ixzz1ApiunMID
I’ve been so disallusioned with the way things have been going with our world that I needed to find out if there is more to us than what we were brought up to believe. That somehow there is more, so finally I researched and found that I had been brought up with tunnelvision, with ‘blinders on’ that what you see is what you get and thats it. Wrong.
The world has know about life out side this world for a long time. Another well kept (or maybe not so well kept) secret is the government involvement with extraterrestrial life, it’s knowledge (yes, Roswell did happen, they did recover a craft, and they did recover dead bodies and one living that was kept alive for quite some time, a year or more) of et’s, the reverse engineering of crashed craft, and this is not EVEN scratching the surface. The more you research the more youu unc0ver, the more you uncover the more there is to find out, it keeps getting deeper and deeper, and I might add, unbelievable. There is more to us and our reality than the average person realizes. A knowledge of all this and continuing research and reading has helped me to cope with our spriling out of control.
Did you know that one of the biggest reasons why there are so many ufo sightings (well documented, “pheonix lights, 1997″) ? They are visiting and keeping watch because of our nuclear weapons and that we are a nuke infested world. Our nuclear capabilities are of tremendous concern to them.
Captain Robert Salas, who, along with six others is to break his silence on the subject, said: ‘We’re talking about unidentified flying objects, as simple as that.
‘The U.S. Air Force is lying about the national security implications of unidentified aerial objects at nuclear bases and we can prove it,’ he said.
The former officer said he witnessed such an event first-hand on March 16, 1967, at Malmstrom Air Force Base in Montana.
‘I was on duty when an object came over and hovered directly over the site.
‘The missiles shut down – ten Minuteman [nuclear] missiles. And the same thing happened at another site a week later. There’s a strong interest in our missiles by these objects, wherever they come from. I personally think they’re not from planet Earth.’
Colonel Charles Halt claims to have seen a UFO at RAF Bentwaters, near Ipswich, one of the few bases in the UK to hold nuclear weapons.
I believe that the security services of both the United States and the United Kingdom have attempted – both then and now – to subvert the significance of what occurred at RAF Bentwaters by the use of well-practised methods of disinformation.’
The six former U.S. Air Force officers and one former enlisted man, are to present declassified information which they claim backs up their findings. They have witness testimony from 120 former or retired military personnel which points to alien intervention at nuclear sites in the U.S. as recently as 2003.
They will urge the authorities to confirm that alien beings have long been visiting Earth.
A press conference today in Washington will also highlight testimony from retired U.S. Air Force Captain Bruce Fenstermacher, whose security team saw a cigar-shaped UFO hovering above FE Warren nuclear base in Wyoming in 1976.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1315339/Aliens-hit-nukes-They-landed-Suffolk-base-claim-airmen.html#ixzz1Apr1CYNo
Some may say, ‘what does this have to do with this thread”? It is about our world which is in essence what this thread is about. If you think aboutit, it has a lot to do with this thread. The “powers that be” is a highly secretive entity, but it holds more than you will ever imagine, or believe. This post is also about knowing more of who we are, that we are in serious trouble. So much so that intelligence from other universes are coming by to watch, to intervene as well from what I’ve read. “People are basically good” is not relevant anymore. “We are not alone” is.
@moonstructures
Interesting post. Thanks for taking the time to write such a detailed and insightful reply to this thread. I know some..if not many..reading your words will no doubt laugh or disagree with you..but I, for one, agree with most of what you said.
It seems the more you read, the more you find real, solid accounts of sightings and encountors that never seem to make it into the mainstream press / media..and not because they are “crazy” or the ramblings of some metally challenged person. If anything, it appears to be because they are so bassed in fact and reason that there is a fear they will lead to public panic if reported on the evening news or over the airways. If anyone doubts this, then call to mind the resulting chaos and uproar caused by the Orson Welles (..another “George” by the way..) radio production of “War of the Worlds”..things haven’t changed much since.
Also, it seems the only accounts that ever get mentioned are the ones that can easily be debunked or explained away..the very ones that don’t deserve our attention in the first place!
Rarely do we hear about such “events” as those both witnessed and recorded by the likes of Christopher Columbus, just before he encounted the US for the first time..
Or the much taked about “Star Map” drawn from memory by the late Betty Hill, which she claimed to have seen aboard a UFO..and which showed the position of stars that were not even discovered by modern astronomers until some years later.
There are other debateable “instances” over the years..but they all seem to end up lost in the memory of time, while only the crazy and obvious hoxes make it into the press and public eye..and which we are told is all there is to this subject.
In the end, it comes down to there really being far more about us and the world we live in..and just who knows what and how much is needed to be known by how many. After all, they say knowledge is power and it has never been more true than it is right now.
Maybe some fear the lost of any or all perceived power they currently hold..or just change itself, while others might well fear the unknown and all that such a notion brings to mind. But I tend to think we already have all the answers out in the open, as they have always been for some time now..we just fail to see this, due to the way we look at the world in which we live.
Science dictates how we view the world..what the world is and how we fit into that world..while every religion through out history has dealt with the spiritual nature of humanity and our existence. Each
of these two domains have traditionally appeared to be poles apart, arguing and pursuing two very different approaches in an attempt to explain just who we are and how we came to be in the first place.
Perhaps, in the end, these two movements are engaged in the attempt to explain the same thing..just coming at it from opposite ends..a case of one feeling emotion..while the other see it as merely the result of a chemical reation taking place inside the body..but both are right and valid at the same time..the paradox of life and understanding!
Politics, in all of this, is the bridge that spans the divide between those who know and those who don’t as much as they think they should! As William Shakespeare said, in “Hamlet”, Act 1 scene 5, There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.”
Dan
@Dan: Did I bring the thread to a halt or nothing more to discuss? Maybe you’re right Dan, but I’d hate to think they’re still laughing (lol)
@moonstructures:
I feel religion and a belief in aliens can’t exist together in a thoughtful wise being.
That’s why I laugh at religion and await our overlords. ;-)
/Religion is for those who can’t handle reality.
hi ashraf, wow politics;
anyway you can have my word that american government would never take down those information leakers for Wikileaks, because they can’t arrest themselves, Wikileaks is just a sou-pap , just may close it.
@Robert:
I don’t think it can or ever will be that simple..as both science and religion are inextricably linked..it’s just our own human imature understanding that results in us tending to look either to the left or the right of the road down which we travel..instead of looking straight ahead. If we did that, then we would see at once that although both sides of the read..sicene and religion..exist in their own right..they wouldn’t be there if it wasn’t for the road itself.
It’s kind of like the old adage of there being two sides to every wall..and there not being good if there were no evil. In the end, it can be argued that everything we feel and think is merely the result of our attempts at explaining and/or understanding the external world from the confines of our internal minds. The non-physical or spiritual will always be just that..just beyond our reach and being based on our own individual beliefs and colored by the current solid scientific proofs to hand. After all, science deals with the “here and now”, whereas religion tends to focus on what comes after and how to get there.
In the end, nobody really knows if there is life after death..it’s a matter of belief..and nobody has the right to tell anyone else what they can or can’t believe.
Dan
@Ben:
oh i wouldnt dream of chastising ashraf. i never knew that.. thanks though for hte link :)
This is typical Assange BS:
“If the Iranian government were to attempt to coercively obtain this information from journalists and activists of foreign nations, human rights groups around the world would speak out.”
This is such a flawed analogy that I don’t know where to start.
However, just to keep it short: Iran would not have any standing to ask for this data, as it wasn’t their secret cables that were published by Assange.
An equivalent scenario would be for Iran to request info. from an IRANIAN “Twitter” as evidence in an investigation of leakage of secret Iranian cables.
Plus, since Iran is not generally well regarded in the US, there is an obvious question of bias in the use of such an analogy by Assange.
What he’s doing is known as sophistry….